CNN Reports Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, as saying: “Bush speeches have started sounding ‘more and more like a sermon in a church’ and risk alienating significant chunks of his constituency.”
Preach it, Rev. Bush!
18/02/2003 at February 18, 2003 @ 9:16pm Permalink
My only problem with Bush using Biblical texts and outwardly displaying Christian theology is that as a Christian, I am represented to the world through him. That sucks. I don’t want to be represented by him. I don’t want to be associated with him. If he is a good, moral Christian man… good. If not, I don’t want to be brought down by his theatrics trying to get the moral vote. Blah.
19/02/2003 at February 19, 2003 @ 2:07am Permalink
By that reasoning, I certainly shouldn’t want to be associated with you. I’m sure there are some things about you that I wouldn’t want people to associate with me, and I’m sure there are likewise some things about me that you wouldn’t want to be identified with. You can’t say someone shouldn’t be a witness just because someone else doesn’t want to fall in the same camp.
Furthermore, George Bush’s actions and personal confession have indicated that he is a good, moral Christian man, and so far ‹ except for the going-to-war part ‹ I haven’t seen anything from him to show otherwise.
And I certainly don’t have any problem with Mr. Bush using his visibility to advance the Kingdom, as I ‹ I would hope ‹ would do if I had the chance.
19/02/2003 at February 19, 2003 @ 12:54pm Permalink
If he screws up, who has to pay for it? We do. For those who already hate Christians, his good intentions may backfire. I get enough hate-mail as it is. I don’t need him “representing” me and making it worse. I didn’t vote for George Bush, I don’t want him in office. It’s that simple. I don’t know if he’s a Christian or if he’s using it as a ploy to get votes. I hope that he is born again, but whether or not he is… that is between him and God. My point is that there are going to be repercussions and it’s all going to fall back on the Christians of America.
19/02/2003 at February 19, 2003 @ 10:21pm Permalink
I completely agree with you there Church girl.
20/02/2003 at February 20, 2003 @ 12:56am Permalink
Everybody screws up. And we’re not supposed to represent each other. We’re supposed to represent Christ. Each of us is responsible to Him for our own actions. By aligning ourselves with Christ, or America, or whatever, we choose to take the risk that people will judge the group by looking at a single member. That shouldn’t be enough to make us hide our identity.
I agree that Mr. Bush is in a delicate position. But so is any other leader. That’s why Paul put such stringent requirements on overseers in 1 Timothy 3:1-3: “Now the overseer must be above reproach…”
I think you’re letting your personal feelings toward the President get in the way of your thinking.
But like I said, I’m sure there’s something we don’t agree on. Looks like we’ve found it.
20/02/2003 at February 20, 2003 @ 12:22pm Permalink
Oh, honey, there are MANY things we don’t agree on. But I would never let that get in the way of the fact that you’re my little muffin man. lol
And no, it isn’t because I think he’s an evil man. It’s because I think that he is going to cause more harm than good in this current “thing.”
20/02/2003 at February 20, 2003 @ 11:15pm Permalink
Oh boy. I can’t believe that I am going to delve into this!
This is the kind of conversation that makes me scared to go into politics. I am glad that I am getting less concerned about what people think of ME. What’s so wrong with Bush? You don’t agree with his positions on issues? Good, don’t vote for him.
It is ridiculous that we try to require our political leaders not to have beliefs and express them. President Bush is a person and as such has the right to say whatever he wants; that is thanks to a lot of good people fighting for the 1st Amendment of the US Constitution. Debating his intentions for saying what he does is your right, but not a very endearing one.
The members in the Americans United for Separation of Church and State probably have fine intentions. However, sometimes they miss the fact that they are contradicting themselves. The whole reason that they exist is to protect people’s freedom of and from religion in this country. Hello, who are they to tell Bush what he can and cannot say?
By the way, there is NO separation of church and state in the US Constitution. If you don’t believe me get a copy and read it. The US Government is prohibited from passing laws that restrict, establish, or favor any specific religion: that’s it. When the President has the power to create laws just by making a speech we will have much bigger problems on our hands.
GET OUT THE VOTE.
21/02/2003 at February 21, 2003 @ 11:02am Permalink
People who preach to choirs annoy me. I’m not even going to reply to that. It’s the same rhetoric I’ve heard from people who try to tell me that there is no God and fight me tooth and nail until they realize I’m not going to argue about it. As far as I’m concerned, as Daniel said, we all just have to agree to disagree, because it’s pointless to argue about it. Have a nice day.
21/02/2003 at February 21, 2003 @ 10:51pm Permalink
Don’t choirs generally agree with the Preacher? I don’t understand.
I didn’t mean to annoy you in particular, just was expressing my opinion on the topic at hand. How can I be presenting the same rhetoric that people whom attest there is no God do? It makes me sad that I would be accused of that over a simple political discussion.
I personally think that agreeing to disagree is pointless because it doesn’t get anything accomplished. I would rather try to find common ground with people. The original topic was whether or not the President should make biblical references in his speeches. I think based on your comments you are not against that so much as you don’t agree with Bush’s politics. Am I right? If so we are on the same track, except for the fact that I do like Bush. It isn’t a big deal to me that we differ there; that is how the system is supposed to work.
22/02/2003 at February 22, 2003 @ 9:34pm Permalink
Where in the Constitution is the clause that mentions a separation of church and state?
22/02/2003 at February 22, 2003 @ 11:31pm Permalink
Hey guys, I haven’t followed this discussion, and I hope I don’t sound like a troll. I agree with Daniel. I could be wrong on this, but I don’t think that many people are going to judge other Christians, based on President Bush’s quotes. If, for instance, he were to be discovered to be involved in similar “relational scandals” as Mr. Clinton, that would be a definite hurt to other Christians.
I feel all Mr. Bush has done is establish himself as a Christian, and having done that, he hasn’t been afraid to express that faith. I think that his can only help the ‘image’ that Christians sometimes worry about. I think that his actions (some of them being the quoting of scripture in his speeches) have followed his claim to be a Christian, which can only be a good thing. It’s a very fresh change from any other celebrity claiming to be a Christian, sometimes even attending church, in front of cameras, when in their personal lives they have a totally different attitude.
I think I’m using too many words to say what I mean. I just think that people won’t have a problem with him quoting scripture, as long as he takes care to back up his profession of faith with his personal actions.
As for my opinion, I think it’s very exciting to hear any of President Bush’s speeches. They are comforting and reassuring. I really believe that he will be doing what he believes is best for our country, even if that may be different from what other people think. That is why he was elected.
I have no clue how big this comment actually is, sorry if I’m making you read a novel!